0: -My name is Anthony Padilla,

2: and today I'll be spending a day with Susan Wojcicki,

4: the CEO of YouTube, who began as one of Google's first employees.

8: This is understandably a controversial subject for me to broach,

11: but I'm going to do my best to address the issues that I along with so many

15: of you have, while also getting to know Susan better as a person.

19: By the end of this video, we'll find out what becoming

21: CEO and running this $170 billion company is really like,

25: just how deep she gets into the drama and gossip that occurs on the platform

30: and YouTube's role in de-platforming its creators.

33: Is holding the highest-ranking position at one of the most culturally impactful

36: platforms on the internet entirely rewarding or has the sheer amount

40: of attacks and rage that Susan's endured as CEO

43: made her want to avoid looking at the internet altogether?

47: [music]

52: Hello, Susan.

53: -Hello.

57: -Do you remember the first time you heard about YouTube and what you thought of it?

60: -I first heard about YouTube from the very, very beginning.

63: I worked on a product that Google had before YouTube,

67: which was called Google Video.

68: For a variety of reasons, YouTube started growing in a very compelling way.

72: At the time, we lived in this world where there was only traditional media,

76: and no one had really thought about could a normal person just upload

79: and become a star.

81: Then I realized there was a whole new wave of storytelling,

84: and that's why I was such a strong advocate for Google to really invest here.

90: -That's so interesting that you were on that side of it,

92: seeing that potential, while I was on the content creator side

95: seeing the potential of it.

96: Their little slogan was "broadcast yourself",

98: and I was like, "Whoa, I can upload content."

102: I remember uploading our first video with Smosh

105: and then seeing feedback from people,

106: 12 comments just blew my mind that people were there

109: and ready to interact immediately.

115: What made you feel like you were the right person to take lead

117: in this hugely influential platform?

119: -It was really Larry Page, who is the founder of Google,

123: who offered me that role.

124: I immediately knew that I had to decide right then and there.

128: -You had to decide within that conversation

130: if you wanted to be CEO of YouTube?

131: -Within a second, and it was an easy choice.

135: I knew. I was like, "Yes, I love YouTube.

137: I think it's amazing." -Were you even able

140: to think about the huge undertaking that you were about to undergo?

143: -No, I had no idea. -[laughs]

144: You were like, "I'll figure it out.

145: Future me can worry about that." How stressful is this job?

149: You're trying to appeal to the creators, the viewers, the advertisers,

153: the investors, the lawmakers, so many people at once.

157: -There are definitely stressful moments.

159: First of all, I've done this for a long time,

161: and the fact that I have done it for so many years gives me

164: some perspective on it that whatever the issue is,

167: I know that we can work through it.

168: I think what is really hard about this role is,

170: no matter what you do and how well the platform

172: is doing and how well it's growing,

174: you're always going to have a lot of constituents who are saying

177: you're not doing enough of one or the other.

178: -I'm sure there's a couple of commenters right now saying some things like that.

182: -I recognize that there's so many creators and small businesses,

185: and they're dependent on the decisions that we make.

187: I take that very seriously, and I want to do a good job.

191: In the end, all these hard conversations--

192: The reason I love doing it is because of the stories

197: that we hear about the impact it has, and that's why, at the end of the day,

201: I'm committed.

202: -Is there anything that you do to prevent yourself

203: from experiencing burnout?

204: -For me, the biggest thing is to focus on what I'm excited about.

208: I also need to have a break.

209: I think that's one of the hardest things about this job is,

211: I could do this job 24 hours a day and it wouldn't be enough.

214: -There's always an email to respond to,

216: always an issue that needs to be addressed.

217: -There always is. I need at some point to stop.

220: -Do you have time that you schedule to put your phone down and just get away

223: from your work for a little bit?

224: -I schedule at the end of the day, I have to stop.

228: Even if I'm not done, I have to stop.

229: I have to get time to exercise and be outside and see friends and family.

235: -You're telling me self-care is important? -It's very important.

238: It's amazing. The next morning, usually,

240: I look at it and it's like, "Oh, that problem isn't so bad,"

242: and I just power through it, but at night it looked like

244: I'd never get through it.

245: -With that said, there are certain elements to YouTube

248: that make it very, very difficult to do that.

255: Considering creators are competing with over 500 hours of content

259: being uploaded to YouTube every single minute

261: and an ever-evolving algorithm that's exhausting to keep up with,

265: are you aware of the burnout that this creates for creators?

269: -We actually looked across a large number of channels,

272: I believe it was millions of channels,

274: over a six-year period to understand what happened to creators' channels

278: when they did take a break.

279: What we saw is that, on average,

282: their viewership and engagement was equal or greater when they returned.

286: -Really?

288: -Yes, really.

289: We really want creators to know they can take a break.

290: -Do you think it's just this innate human behavior,

293: this reaction to seeing success, they feel like, "I can't take a break,

297: I need to continue this momentum,"

299: or do you think it is something intrinsically designed

301: within the YouTube platform that makes people feel

303: like they have to continue going at full throttle non-stop?

306: -It is a competitive space.

308: The environment changes, culture changes very quickly.

311: I don't know if it's YouTube specific as it is, just media.

315: -How many hours a week do you spend consuming content on YouTube?

318: -I probably watch YouTube at least an hour every day,

320: just personally.

321: -That's me on a very low day.

323: For me, it's probably like three hours at least.

326: -I watch it for work, too. When you watch it for work,

328: usually those are different kinds of videos.

331: Sometimes there are videos that are of something that's going wrong.

335: -Many creators feel constant pressure to optimize every single aspect

338: of their content with increasingly eye-catching titles and thumbnails,

342: as well as the pressure to keep viewers from clicking on the competing related

347: videos that display alongside their content.

349: Do you have any plans to ease this burden on creators?

351: -To you it might seem like competing content, but I think,

354: to viewers, it might seem like lots of options

356: and an opportunity also to discover different creators.

360: -Creating content on YouTube has obviously changed

363: my life for the better.

365: I would not be who I am today without YouTube.

367: Then, again, someone might ask me about the struggles,

371: "What's it like creating content on YouTube?"

373: I can say something like,

374: "Imagine that you're in a work environment that doesn't always lay out

378: clear guidelines for what's rewarded and abruptly changes those guidelines

383: and expectations and puts the onus on you

386: to interpret your own performance metrics in order to succeed."

389: What kind of impact on an employee's work

390: and general well-being do you think this creates?

393: -In some ways, all jobs

395: have some amount of uncertainty in them.

397: It's not always clearly laid out for you.

400: It can be competitive and difficult.

402: On YouTube, specifically, we want to communicate more with creators.

407: We have a huge initiative to try to make sure that we're doing everything

411: we can for creators to understand our platform and understand how it works.

415: -Do you think there'll ever be just one place where people know

417: that they can always see constant rollodex of updates,

421: so that it's easy to know what's going on?

423: -We try to put it in YouTube Studio because that's the place that we know

425: all creators are going to.

427: -Before we continue learning about the world of being the CEO of YouTube,

430: if there's anyone in the comments right now angrily claiming that you Susan

435: are the key reason that YouTube isn't the way they wish it were,

437: what would you say to them?

438: I'd like to thank the absurdly talented 3D and VFX artist Jacob Dalton for creating

443: the coming up screen that you just witnessed,

445: and also this incredible looping animation that is occurring right

449: between your eyes. Let's just pause and enjoy.

455: Of course,

456: I'd also like to thank you for continuing to support me and giving me

459: the opportunity to sit down with some incredibly remarkable people

463: and being open to this new format I've been experimenting with.

467: Just having one-on-one interviews, just a single guest per episode.

470: Like I spent a day with Mia Khalifa, Corpse Husband,

473: Dream and even now, the CEO of YouTube herself.

478: If you will,

479: please take a look down at your Subscribe button,

482: see if you're subscribed.

483: Most people who watch these episodes aren't subscribed

486: and they might not even know it at all,

488: so make sure to click that Subscribe button

491: if you don't want to miss the upcoming episodes

493: that I have planned on bipolar disorder.

495: What I have was some of the most legendary

498: OG Mindcrafters on the platform.

500: Now, back to the world of being a CEO of YouTube.

506: Do you keep up to date with any drama or gossip that goes on on YouTube?

510: -Yes, I do.

512: -Like the petty stuff or--?

513: What kind of level? -It's all my job, in a sense,

516: to know what's happening on YouTube.

519: -How much does this drama affect your job and the decisions

522: that you make behind the scenes?

523: -When there is drama,

526: I want to make sure that I'm aware of it,

528: generally understand what's going on.

531: Is this something that we need to step in and to make sure that we're protecting

538: the community, or is there something that's missing in our policies

541: that maybe isn't protected, some kind of action,

544: the creators are upset, and we need policy to deal with this going forward.

548: I'm really looking at it from that perspective.

552: -Many mental health professionals are beginning to link media trauma,

555: including public humiliation,

557: shaming and misrepresentation campaigns with the intent of tarnishing

561: another creator's reputation for personal gain and monetization.

564: They're linking that with complex PTSD.

567: Do you feel the way that the YouTube platform

571: is designed inadvertently rewards and encourages this kind of behavior?

575: -We're working to discourage that.

577: One of the things that we saw is that people were sometimes

579: repeatedly attacking someone, but in a small way.

583: It'd be like every video, but it's just a little--

586: -The one person doesn't feel like the one jab

588: is contributing to this much bigger damage.

590: -That's why we actually then started to implement policy around that

595: and have a variety of different steps, whether it's monetization,

599: or having a strike, or losing the channel, at least,

603: because we don't want to see creator-on-creator harassment.

606: -I've seen more and more of that with certain sections

608: of the site feeling like tabloids in a way, or gossip sites

612: where they become centers of attack to drive people off the platform

616: and almost deplatform them.

617: -We're trying to keep tabs on what's happening,

620: and making sure that we have the right policies in place to address that.

623: -On the opposite side of that,

625: does YouTube plan to deplatform creators based on allegations of illegal activities

628: provided in videos uploaded to the platform?

631: -When we do see legal activity, or there is clear proof of a crime,

636: there certainly will be times it makes sense

638: to remove them from the platform.

641: These cases take many different forms and some people are accused,

645: but they're actually innocent, or they say they didn't do it,

648: but then the court- -It's very messy.

649: --[?] guilty.

650: There could be many different examples of this, but, yes,

653: we're trying to make sure that we are not having

656: any kind of nexus or connection to illegal activity

659: in terms of things that have happened on the platform.

661: -I can see that being really difficult to differentiate between the two because,

664: like you said, sometimes there's false allegations

666: that people make. Maybe someone does it just because

668: they know it's going to get them views and make the money with ads,

671: and then there's other people that are being genuine.

674: I feel like it's a very nuanced and difficult situation to be in,

677: especially when people are putting that responsibility on YouTube

681: to make all those decisions and to always know what's best.

684: People have this mob mentality where they say,

686: "We all think this is true, so it might as well be true,

689: and you should act as if it's true." -I don't want to generalize

691: because we look at every case.

692: We try to go on all the facts, not who's saying what about what,

696: but what are the facts of the case,

698: and what's the right thing for the overall community.

700: -Why do you feel it makes sense to allow edgier,

702: or even straight-up lewd contents to remain fully monetizable,

707: even allowing it to sit at the top of YouTube's trending tab

710: if it's in the form of a music video while demonetizing

713: or blacklisting the same type of content, otherwise?

716: -Advertisers have decisions about where their dollars go.

718: They're spending money with YouTube,

720: and if we put them on a video that they don't like,

723: they're going to pull spend from that creator going forward,

727: and they may pull spend from a lot of other creators,

730: and they might pull it from all of YouTube.

731: There is a lot more tolerance from the advertising community

736: to be on music videos when they're the best-selling video,

741: when you have really popular music, established, and everybody's singing it,

746: and it's very popular. -It's more so the advertiser that decides,

749: "I want to be on this lewd content because it's popular."

752: -We cannot say like, "Hey, you need to be on this creator

756: or what, or we're going take away all your spend."

760: They'll be like, "Okay, fine. I'll leave."

762: Advertisers will literally choose.

764: They'll have a whitelist.

765: They'll have people in their department and they will say,

768: "These are the videos we want to run on," and they just hand us a whitelist.

771: -If there's anyone in the comments right now angrily claiming that you,

775: Susan, are the key reason

776: that YouTube isn't the way they wish it were,

778: what would you say to them? -It's much more complicated.

781: [chuckles] It's not just me. -[chuckles]

783: You're not going to blame someone else?

784: [laughs]

785: -I'll take ultimate responsibility for everything,

788: but it has to do with the fact we want to enable as many creators.

792: We want them to have monetization, but a lot of times,

795: these issues are much more complex than people understand.

798: Maybe the changes that we implemented, for example, are due to regulation,

801: or they're due because these changes we've done will enable more advertisers

806: to come and spend more revenue with YouTube creators.

809: It's not like I just made a decision by myself and then was like,

812: "Oh, no. I'll pull you in the back."

814: -You're not sitting control room flipping switches and saying, "Yes,

816: turn this on. No, turn that off."

817: -No, no. We want to have as much

819: my free expression as possible.

820: -How do you feel about people specifically targeting you with these things?

823: When I posted a community tab post asking people to submit questions for this,

827: many people were specifically attacking you in some ways.

830: How do you feel when you receive those attacks?

832: Do you just brush it off?

833: -It's hard.

834: It is much more complex than people realize.

837: Sure, if I could just wave a magic wand and make everybody happy,

842: I would.

843: -Do you try not to read those comments, or do you just brush it off your back?

846: Do any of them get to you?

848: -Look, at the end of the day,

849: I do it because I believe in the value that YouTube's creating,

854: even though there are some people who are angry.

856: I also try to make sure that I'm listening,

859: and I'm hearing them.

862: The demonetization, what was it?

865: The ad apocalypse, right?

867: -Adpocalyse.

868: Just want to say, you got to say it perfectly or people are going to roast.

870: [laughs] -Yes, totally.

871: -Adpocalypse. -Adpocalypse.

873: -Yes. [laughs]

875: There you go. [laughter]

876: -Honestly, it's not a word I said a lot.

879: I read it.

880: That was a period of time where it was really hard.

883: It was so hard.

885: Everyone was yelling at us.

887: -I can imagine. -The creators were yelling at us,

888: our advertisers were yelling at us.

890: Internally, people were yelling at us.

892: -I'm sure you had some prime ministers yelling at you somewhere.

895: [laughs] -It wasn't a really good time.

896: -[laughs]

898: -I'll just leave it at that.

902: -When you reflect as your time as CEO,

905: what do you think you're most proud of?

907: -I'm proud overall that the platform has enabled so many people

913: to tell their story and to have careers

917: and storytelling that otherwise they never would have had.

920: -You know that the community is the foundation for the entire platform.

925: It sounds to me like you're wanting to constantly achieve

928: that and then you appreciate it. -I do. I definitely do.

929: I watch videos where people are complaining about YouTube.

933: I read the comments,

936: I am on Twitter.

938: -There you go, leave some comments below,

940: and Susan will read them, maybe.

941: -I read through them, and when it's something

943: that I think we need to change, I'll send it to our team.

946: I'll send it and say, "Hey, I saw this video,

949: you should watch it." I find gaps in what we do,

953: and I try to fix it.

955: -It is easy to overlook things because you obviously are not

958: an average user in the sense that you're not on the site 10 hours a day

963: like some people. -I do have things I have to it.

965: -Of course. -I wouldn't to be doing my job

968: if I was on YouTube 10 hours a day.

972: -You're like, "I just consume YouTube now.

974: I didn't even manage it anymore." -[?] my job.

976: -What do you think is the biggest misconception about you?

981: -There are issues that I just don't want to fix.

985: A lot of times, they're much,

989: much deeper and they're more complicated.

993: You criticized us on our monetization around sexual content.

1000: -I personally feel these topics and the people affected

1003: by their discussions are extremely important despite

1007: YouTube's advertisers blacklisting this content from being discovered,

1012: because I saw it as a point of view of a journalistic perspective,

1015: having conversations that I feel could be incredibly impactful

1019: and helpful for many people.

1020: Yet, YouTube sees the word "sex" and says, "This can't happen."

1024: Even though I'm like, "There's a YouTube for kids out there,

1027: this is standard YouTube, this is okay for this side of YouTube."

1031: -One of them was around monetization.

1034: You're like, "Oh, YouTube has to make this decision."

1037: -Videos discussing anything sexual,

1040: whether it be for educational purposes or journalism are almost

1045: always demonetized by YouTube.

1047: -Advertisers may not necessarily choose

1050: to associate their brand with that content.

1052: It's not necessarily YouTube's decision,

1054: but I will say that our goal is to try to continue to work on the advertiser

1060: community to understand what can work for them and why.

1064: Then in that video, you also said that we will not distribute it,

1070: like inspiration, recommendations.

1071: -Recommend, or push it, distribute it.

1073: -That's actually a common misconception. -In that video, yes.

1076: -People always will say that, "Oh, it got demonetized,"

1078: and we suppressed it in some way in the recommendations and stuff.

1082: What happens is, if there's content that is

1084: maybe edgier or more adult in themes,

1087: then we also have to- it's not necessarily that we are trying to suppress it,

1093: it's that we may need to be just more careful

1097: because it's a more of an adult type of content.

1100: In reality, things are just much more complicated.

1102: There are many aspects about why we're making the decisions that we are.

1106: -You're telling me there's nuance.

1108: You got five seconds a shout-out to promote anything you want

1111: directly in the camera, go.

1112: -Thank you to all the creators for all your incredible work,

1115: and I'm going to do everything I can to continue to grow

1118: the community in the best way I can.

1120: Subscribe to the Anthony Padilla channel.

1122: -Subscribe to the Anthony Padilla channel right here right now.

1126: -You want me to point down?

1128: -[laughs]

1129: There you have it, I spent a day with Susan Wojcicki, the CEO of YouTube.

1132: I feel like I understand where she's coming from

1134: and her position a little bit more.

1136: The thing that actually struck me most was just how willing it sounds

1141: like she is to listen and try to understand the issues

1143: that so many of us are having with the platform.

1146: Also, how it's a natural inclination to place

1148: full blame on the CEO of any company.

1150: Of course,

1151: there is so much more nuance to the way that companies

1154: actually work behind the scenes.

1156: I really hope to spend another day with her soon to see how many

1158: of our concerns have actually been addressed,

1160: and also to see how much Susan's life has changed as well.

1171: -When you created the Smosh movie and you asked for Mr. YouTube,

1178: YouTube's CEO is a total asshole.

1180: -[laughs]

1182: -Can you just explain that to me?

1184: -The idea of it was just,

1186: wouldn't it be funny if this guy needs to be an asshole because it's funny,

1191: and I don't think that it was much deeper than that.

1194: It wasn't based off you or anything.

1196: I swear.

1197: [laughter]

1200: Did you actually watch it?

1201: -I watched that scene, yes.

1203: -[laughs]

1205: -I did think it was funny.

1208: -Smosh: The Movie, Susan Wojcicki approved.